Lost in la Mancha DVD interview transcript (22:27 minutes) (2002)

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I think Terry Gilliam…

He’s insane, yeah (laughs). Yes, absolutely insane…Um, he, I think he said that, in one way or another, a Don Quixote film has been in his mind for I think its like ten years, twelve years, something like that, a long time. Yeah, I think Gilliam’s been dealing with the ghost for about ten years.

Yeah, I was wondering how, when you got involved and whether it was maybe when you were doing Fear and Loathing with him, did he mention, you know, Don Quixote then or…?

No, when we were doing fear and loathing together, um, we talked about a couple of projects that he’d sort of been wanting to do, and uh… I think the Quixote thing came up that he had, Tony had been writing the script again and working on the screen play for it. No, it wasn’t till like, maybe a year or so afterwards, that I got the call and he sent me the screen play.

But did you more or less meet him for the first time while you were doing Fear and Loathing?

The first time we worked together, the first time we worked together was on Fear and Loathing. We met years before, I think I actually met Terry, twice before. Once in Cannes, which is a horrible place to meet anyone when the film festival’s going on, and then once in a Planet Hollywood here in London, it was the opening of the Planet Hollywood here in London and I don’t know how the two of us ended up there but I think that’s actually when we first met.

Yeah, but I mean, presumably you are very much friends now, are you, (Yeah), and it was even one of the main reasons for wanting to do The Man Who Killed Don Quixote.

Oh absolutely, I mean, yeah, I mean, having experienced Terry Gilliam on Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas and loving that process, I really loved the process with him, uh, it was a great energy, and I think we worked very well together, and I don’t know what the, the final product is the final product, I don’t know what that is, but the creative process was really enjoyable, I really had a great time and, umm so yeah, the initial, the initial thing for me with Quixote was the opportunity to work with Terry again and uh then when he and Tony sent me the screen play, I was just blown away by it because I, I felt like I was reading a.., this great book, it didn’t read like a screen play, it read like this beautiful, sort of epic, hilarious poem.

You’ve, you obviously have something about dreamers, you make films about dreamers. You know, there’s Don Juan DeMarco, and um what’s the other one that’s really kind of... Ed Wood, obviously is a dreamer, is there actually something of that in this that you liked, obviously the whole Quixote thing of…

Well certainly, yeah, I mean the, the yeah, certainly there is Quixote you know, Cervantes’ Quixote as the, as the basis, you know the real, sort of foundation that we were standing on, but then Gilliam’s, Gilliam and Tony’s take on that, and uh, and also the character, my character, Toby Grossini, being the complete opposite of Quixote, I mean really the complete, complete opposite. Toby being a product of, of these times that we live in, I mean, just a greed monster, just an absolute you know, out to get all he can get, for himself, um, and sort of that, I dunno, the two of those, those opposites, you know. Of Quixote this great dreamer, this chivalrous, beautiful, romantic, you know, kind of slightly crazy... And then there is Toby, this machine, you know, this modern machine, this eating, this horrible vicious modern man you know.

And what is it exactly about Gilliam that would make you want to work with him again after the first time because you do get the impression both from his reputation and slightly from watching Lost in La Mancha that the guy is, what did you call him… a lunatic.

Um, well he is a lunatic, but I mean, I mean that, as a great, great compliment because Terry in a lot of ways is really free. He’s not, he’s not bound by, um, the realities of this is possible that’s not possible, you know that kinda thing. Terry is a great dreamer. Terry’s, but he makes, he’s able to, sort of, put his visions into an arena and make them come true. And also, I mean, one of the things I found, working with Terry, because there is this myth about Terry Gilliam, there is this myth about him being out of control, in terms of budgets and whatever, you know, this film maker who just, you know, waits for this specific cloud formation, or otherwise won’t shoot, you know, wait for days or that kinda thing. There’s this myth of the irresponsible, psychotic, film maker Terry Gilliam that’s absolutely untrue. He came in and did Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas for, for um, I think it was 18 or something, you know. It was nothing compared to what they’re making films for out there.

Yeah, I mean, he’s, because of this film people are now saying, adding to that myth by saying well obviously Gilliam is a kind of Don Quixote figure, and I think he kind of half embraces that image himself and half knows that maybe he’s not exactly going to get paid off for it.

Well there is that sort of, yeah, I think Ray Cooper said it best, you know that “aufron terrible” you know, to Gilliam, which he is, but at the same time, and as you see in Lost in La Mancha, he’s an incredibly responsible film maker at every turn, he’s trying to do everything he can to shoot, you know, with, within reason, uh, Jean Rouxfau was very ill so um, so at the same time he’s trying to balance this production which was, you know, going down the tubes rapidly, and uh…

Is there some kind of, do you think there is some kind of comparison to be made between Gilliam and Tim Burton who obviously, you know, you’ve collaborated with a lot, you know, if not dreamers but definitely kind of mavericks and in some sense in visionaries even.

Absolutely, I mean, uh, I think there’s a lot of great similarities between Terry and Tim, um, at the same time great, great differences. But both of them being, what I think, you know, two of the most important film makers, certainly in the last twenty years.

What would you say some of the similarities are?

Well they, they won’t, they won’t compromise their vision. They’ll work within the boundaries of what, of what, Hollywood, or what cinema gives you to some degree. They work within those boundaries, they know, they understand, they realize they’re limited um by certain restrictions, budget, so on and so forth, but, but they will find a way, to make their, to achieve their vision, to arrive at what they’ve set out to do.

And they’re not really at all conformists are they?

No, (laughs) they’re not conformists, no, not remotely. No, I think these are two guys, Terry’s certainly, Terry’s been doing it, quite a bit longer than Tim, who, who I don’t think know how to sell out, which is beautiful, which is more beautiful than not selling out at all, they don’t understand, they couldn’t, I mean its just not, it’s not possible, you know.

And is that a part of what attracts you two them, and maybe, I dunno, them to you?

I dunno what attracts them to me um (laughs) I dunno what attracts them to me, maybe they’re not attracted to me (laughs) um no, I, what attracts me to them, certainly, is, is uh, a respect, a deep respect for um for their vision, their strength, perseverance. I mean, it’s not easy to stay either crazy or sane in Hollywood (laughs) it’s really not easy because they like to wrap you up in the same paper as everyone else, you know, and market you like that, so um these guys have survived that, so I respect that immensely.

Can you talk us through the shoot a bit, um, I mean, now famously, everyone knows it lasted six days, I don’t know how long before that you arrived, I mean you must have been there for a little bit of pre-production, but if you can just talk us through. I’m just curious to know to what extent it was obvious, maybe even before day one of the shoot, that the film would be, might be in trouble.

Certainly, as soon as we, I got there, I don’t know how long it was I got there before we started shooting, wasn’t much, I think it was maybe a week or something, but I knew it was sufficient, I mean, I knew it was going to be fine, um, in terms of Terry, and Tony, and I getting together and going through the stuff and making it all work. So I got there in enough time, I knew that Terry was sweating, um, Tony was probably concerned, the French producers were, ripping their hair out. But, um, I think it became apparent that things were beginning to go sideways as soon as we got news that Jean was not well. The reports started coming in, I think initially, it was something about an infection, a prostate infection and whatever, and then sort of turned into this other thing, and maybe it’s this maybe it’s that, and then it became ‘oh it’s psychosomatic’, and then it became ‘oh now he has, a sort of, double herniated disk’, and you know, these sort of wild, kind of assumptions…

And he couldn’t even get on the horse could he?

He got on the horse, but once he got on the horse, he sort of stayed on the horse because it was too painful to get on and off again. And he was really a trooper, I mean the guy really pushed it to the limit, and it was frightening, you know, because however viral, however stoic, whatever you know, there were moments when you could see he was truly in pain, and uh, yeah, I was sort of getting very, very worried, you know, about him, first and foremost, about him.

And um, what did what day of the six did the storm happen, this remarkable…

The storm? Oh man, you mean the monsoon, I mean, with hail, rocks, like that (holds up fingers in the size of a gumball) you know enormous. I remember arriving back to my trailer, and my pockets, and the makeup girl, my makeup girl, our pockets were filled with ice, I mean, from the sky. It was absurd, that was, the first or second day of shooting.

And did that just come out of the blue? You were shooting, and all of a sudden the heavens opened…

Yeah, I remember, the first thing I was absolutely amazed with, was the fact that we were shooting in this military zone, this NATO, target practice range, I mean, bombing range, airplanes like F-14s or F-16s or whatever. So, initially, I remember being completely shocked by the sound of this plane screaming in, you know, (makes airplane sound) like that kinda thing, like deafening, and then the next thing you heard and saw, between the set where we were shooting and the base camp, which is sort of where our trailers were, you heard the plain scream in, and then a bomb, exploding (laughs) you know, (makes exploding sound) and fire, you saw a little blast of fire.

So, no one told them you were there?

No, they knew, but the thing was, we’d be told apparently, early on, the location people and Terry and whatever, had been told that the, this kind of thing would only happen between such and such of hours or whatever, and you know, only for a very small, short amount of time, short period of time and uh, it was an absolute lie because these things just kept on screaming in I mean, like one after another. And there were bombs, you know, these little “test bombs” which I thought was pretty, fascinating, and then, you know, the next thing you know, beautiful day in Navarra, in Spain, and these enormous, back, thick, huge clouds, sort of lumbered through, and arrived, and sort of just covered us up, and then, and then it was over with man. The next thing you knew, camera equipment, stunt pads, anything that wasn’t nailed down, floating away.

And I think Gilliam talked about the storm, and know he was talking about it and he really seemed like King Leo, he was kind of remembering it. I think he, didn’t he walk out into the storm at some point?

He did, yeah. Yeah, because, at a certain point, I mean when that happened, it was kinda like, certainly, I mean there is nothing you can do. So Terry just said “Fuck it.” You know. “Lets have it” you know, “Give it all to me, lets have it.” He got it all (laughs).

When you, when we watched Lost in la Mancha, there were some fantastic glimpses of the film that would have been, might have been. There’s that great scene with the giants, you see people rehearsing the puppets, there’s a scene with you in a chain gang, and in fact a bizarre one of you fighting a fish at some point. (yeah, yeah) I mean, is that, it was only six days, but did you actually feel some exhilaration of what you were, betting that you didn’t know it was going to close when it closed, were you quite excited while you were doing it?

Yeah, absolutely, I mean, against all odds, against all the elements, against everything that was telling us to stop very early on. It felt great, it really felt great and it felt like it was going to be an amazing film, a really funny film, a really profound film, really deep, just a beautiful Terry Gilliam film. In an odd way like a best of Terry Gilliam, you know. Sort of like, you know, incorporating this great sort of pythonesce feel, and Terry’s sort of runaway brain. You really had the feeling it was gonna be great, really great. Yeah, and I mean, I felt really good about it. I felt that I’d come up with a really interesting, really fun character. Terry felt good about the character, and uh, we were just sort of, it was terrific, you know, we felt great. Like things like that, magic moments where, where um, you know, the director allows you to improvise with a dead fish, and you know, its that kind of stuff that you live for as an actor, at least I do (laughs).

Was it also, kinda maybe a personal sadness about it, in a sense that, and correct me if I’m wrong, but I think it would have been, first of all, Vanessa’s first film in English and also maybe the first film you would have made together, would have been.

Yeah, would have been the first film Vanessa and I had made together, I don’t know if it was her first film in English, I don’t know…

But were the two of you quite excited about working together, and was that quite sad in the sense that it didn’t really happen?

Well excited, I mean, excited that we were all going to be together, be able to make a film with my girl at my side and my daughter at the time, you know, that was all great. Um, but at the same time we were also a little bit, you know, slightly freaked out by…

By the chaos?

No, freaked out about going to work together, having to lie to one another in the daytime, you know, on camera or whatever, you know that kinda thing. It was a little bit strange, but I figured we’d get over it in the first couple of days.

Yeah, except that you didn’t get that chance in the end, obviously. I mean I don’t think she, did she shoot anything?

No, she shot only a test, she shot a makeup, makeup and hair test, camera test. She was to work, the next day. The following day. So and (makes a whistling sound and then splat sound).

How did you feel when you, because obviously we’ve been talking about Lost in la Mancha, its being built already as the first ever, un-making of film. I think, again, Terry gets a big, frivolous kick out of ‘I’ve been first with something’ I’ve done this un-making documentary. But how did you feel when you watched it, was it kind of, mostly sadness, was it excitement of seeing the good bits or…?

First thing, I remember watching it, for the first time, a very early version and thinking ‘my God’. I was so shocked that these guys had gotten so much, you know. They’d acquired so much footage in such a short amount of time, um, and just had all this stuff, you know, and were able to put this together, I was just blow away by that. Uh, the reaction was, first of all, I mean it’s hilarious when you, sort of in retrospect, I mean watching the thing happen again, it was very funny. You know, all those clouds and the planes, and the this and that, you know. All these impossible things, you know, fighting the elements like that. Um, and also yeah, I think it is very interesting to see Terry, who was so initially, in the film, is so excited, and rearing to go and really, you know, ‘here we go, this is it Quixote, wham you know, it’s the whole thing’, and then you see him slowly but surely, see him shrink, and you see, you see a different human being, you know, he transforms into this other thing, this, this beaten man.

And in that sense it is quite tragic, actually, it’s really funny in places but…

Yeah, its very funny and very tragic, yeah, and all horribly true (laughs).

Do you, I mean last question really then, um I know that he is very keen to pick it up again, I mean he has to go through legal things and whatever first I think, um, but he wants to make it, he suggested that you will be there making it with him and is that always…?

Oh, I’ll definitely be there, oh yeah, if Terry wants to pick this up again and start, you know, right away, I’m ready, I’m ready.

And what’s the kind of continued, I mean, are you obsessed as he is now, and is it the story, is it him, is it everything?

It’s everything. First of all, it’s him. I mean, if this is the film that he wants to see happen, to make happen, I want to be there. Um, and I think its going to be a great film, I think we can do it, I think we can do a beautiful, very funny, great Terry Gilliam film. And I, I’d love to be involved on any level.

I mean, there is the curse of Quixote, that is kind of…done for.

There is, there is the curse of Quixote, but you know, I mean I think, you know, we’ve gone through that bit. You know, that bit of the curse of Quixote lets, you know, and we survived, lets see what comes next.

Well I’ll look forward to seeing it, make sure I will.

Me two (laughs).

Thanks a lot.

Thanks. Thanks a lot.

(shake hands)